S2E5 : with Kathryn Ho : Depression Doesn't Need To Be Fixed.
Kathryn is a life coach who helps over-thinkers, self-critics, and deeply thoughtful humans to let go of self-judgement without bypassing their feelings or current reality, and helps them to live life more on their own terms.
I met Kathryn in a group coaching programme and was drawn to how comfortable she seemed with sitting in discomfort… I watched as she took the space and time she needed and - something I still struggle with even though I’ve been working on for what feels like forever! - didn’t feel compelled to fill space with words!
It came as no surprise, then, when she told me she’s all about sitting in discomfort, and that there’s no need for ‘positive thinking’ when you’re around her. How refreshing is that!
LISTEN HERE:
KATHRYN’S LINKS
OTHER LINKS
Depression as an adaptive response:
The Depths: The Evolutionary Origins of the Depression Epidemic, by Jonathan Rottenberg
Terror Mangement Theory (Managing Death Anxiety):
The Worm at the Core: On the Role of Death in Life, by Sheldon Solomon, Jeff Greenberg, Tom Pyszczynski
Water turns to steam:
Start Where You Are: A Guide to Compassionate Living, by Pema Chödrön
That culture is the air we breathe:
Untamed, by Glennon Doyle
Holding our fears behind our back:
Already Free: Buddhism Meets Psychotherapy on the Path of Liberation, by Bruce Tift
Your early thirties as a period of settling + community finding:
Transitions: Making Sense of Life's Changes by William Bridges
EPISODE NOTES
4:32 - Getting comfortable with discomfort
5:51 - Journey with depression - value, curiosity and lessons
7:39 - Depression as a biological and adaptive response. Book ref, The Depths by Jonathan Rotenburg. What does depression tell us?
9:44 - How depression goes against the grain of societal expectations of a human, and the result of that.
12:21 - Personal significance, belonging/not belonging, feeling special.
14:44 - Terror management theory - humans are the only beings who are aware of their own death, and how we manage that by living beyond ourselves through culture, society and the greater good.
19:32 - Navigating significance, purpose, community, connection and contribution in the face of depression, disconnection, existentialism, removal of cultural meaning.
23:17 - Not fighting; taking a moment to experience, sit in discomfort and learn from your experience. Making sense and exploring the ‘why’. Finding comfort in the knowledge that your experience is a totally understandable and natural response.
23:59 - The cost/benefit of adaptive responses in different/changing environments.
31:23 - The anti-climax that comes from expecting there to be ‘a moment’ “when water turns into steam” and how healing has evolved to mean almost nothing about the direct symptoms of my chronic illness.
34:31 - Do we substitute the word ‘healed’ for ‘perfect’. Healing doesn’t = a lack or an absence. It’s a deepening understanding of yourself, how you want to be and ultimately, living.
40:22 - communication, understanding, meaning
42:38 - Communicating a ‘non-mainstream’ way of living with your chronic illness with those around you, feeling shame around your chronic illness, and not piling shame upon shame.
49:24 - Depression as an amplifier and playing with integration.